By Ron Evans
On Thursday, August 4th Wenatchee summer staple Hot August Nights returns to the Numerica Performing Arts Center with Pippin. I wanted to learn more about this musical so I invited director Jaime Donegan to drink cold beers with me at Hellbent Taproom at Pybus. Donegan brought along some other willing day drinkers involved with the show; assistant director Vicki Michaels, choreographer Bethany Christine Elkin, PAC Director of Programming & Marketing Alex Haley and Box Office Manager Zach Missal. Mingling in the wings were Development Director Marissa Collins and Executive Director J. Woody Lotts.
The following is the abridged but uncensored transcript from this chat. There were laughs, tears, spilled beers and hijacked interview notes. In the end, I didn’t learn all that much about Pippin - and yet somehow I only want to see it more.
Evans: So I have looked up Pippin online, found some stuff - but I still have no clue what the hell this show is about.
Donegan: That’s good. That’s how it should be, especially with this production. But the bottom line is, this show can be pretty much anything you want it to be. I’m not certain that it was written with that intention. There’s a lot of historical characters in it. But it doesn’t take place in any particular time frame. My take is this is happening today. It’s happening right now, as the audience is seeing it…and (server comes over) oh hi, I’m gonna have the Funky Red Patina.
Evans: That’s a good one. I’ll do the House IPA and a shot of Jameson.
Elkin: Oh, they have liquor!
Donegan: So…with that said, my simple answer on this is it’s a young man’s journey to have an extraordinary life.
Evans: Oh, that’s good. Did you just make that up?
Donegan: No, I’ve been working on it. Because the rest of it starts to get a little convoluted. In reality, most productions I’ve ever seen of this show have been absolutely terrible. Because no one pays attention to the subtext and what is down there, below it all.
The only production of this that I have ever seen that inspired me, actually didn’t do that either. But it was the Broadway revival in 2013. And they paired it with like, it wasn’t Cirque du Soleil - but it was a Cirque du Soleil style, kind of circus group. And so it came to life in a different way. And it was great. And it was fun, and it was lovely.
And I happened to go and see it with my cousin who had weeks to live. And it literally changed me - holding onto someone’s hand and watching this song that’s called “No Time At All.” And “you’ve got to keep living” dah dah dah…while holding the hand of someone that was not going to be there in two weeks. And that was so powerful for me. And that, I think probably made me look at it with fresh eyes. It totally changed me. It’s the first time I’ve ever loved the show, because I never did before.
Evans: Wow. So how do you take that kind of experience and put it into your own version of this show?
Donegan: So initially, when we were going to do this two years ago, I was going to do something really stupid. And I fully admit to that, because, again, I got changed in that process.
Evans: That’s right this was supposed to happen pre-Covid.
Donegan: Yeah. And if the director can’t be changed and transformed during any production, and they’re just like this, then they’re not really directing, they’re dictating. And I want to make sure that my cast always has a say, I’m going to give them a vision. And we’re always going to have play time. In the end, it’s not about being a tyrant. We are getting there together. And we’re making this.
Haley: Not a tyrant? Oh, this show must be different I guess.
Others laugh.
Donegan: Fuck you.
More laughs. And the beers arrive.
Server: IPA?
Evans: Yeah I got one of those.
Server: Shot of Jameson?
Evans: Yeah I got one of those too.
Haley: Guess the first round goes to Ron.
Evans: Ok…so what changed the path you were heading down?
Donegan: I started looking at it and asking, why? Why is this all happening? Why, and the why just kept getting bigger and bigger and more broad. And in the end, I created a backstory that I think is necessary, and somebody else might do it and create an entirely different backstory. But what I realized was that it was important to establish a backstory that you share with your cast, and then you let them go from there. And my backstory is the premise that makes this show work for me. And that’s all that matters. Fuck them.
Gestures at others at the table.
Michaels: Tyrant.
Evans: So do you think the Covid year(s) actually helped in steering this production in a better place?
Donegan: It wasn’t Covid, it was the time. The time where we were allowed to not do anything that made me want to look at it deeper and discover it for myself. And when I did - sadly…
The others giggle knowingly.
Ok, so I had a conversation with Don Fox, my producing partner and my set designer to give him kind of a basic layout of a set design, which I thought would work. And we just kind of briefly talked about it. And he goes well, I’m not going to be able to get to that for a while. So let’s talk more about it. Two days later, I woke up, possibly tequila-induced. And I said, oh my god, that’s all wrong. This is what it needs to be. And so I sat down and wrote this long, detailed email and sent it to Don and then I called Bethany and I was like, this is what I think it has to be. It’s got to be this. And she was all excited, right? And then I’d gotten a very terse email from Don Fox that said “I spent 10 hours yesterday working on this set. I can’t with you right now. We’ll revisit it in three weeks.” The original idea was to do it like a globe style theater with a second tier.
And then I remembered Chicago, which we had done some similar things -
The others at the table groan at the mention of that stage setup.
- so then I said, let’s go back to the original idea that you had. I’m not gonna tell you, because I don’t want to ruin it. But when Don and I did finally sit down and start to talk via Zoom calls he started seeing it and suggesting how we could pull it off. And then all of a sudden, I was like, yes, yes, yes. Yes, we are on the right track. This exactly. And so we were moving in the right direction.
Missal: We did get to see some of the songs for the review in the courtyard last year, even though we didn’t know we’d even be doing Pippin at that time.
Donegan: Yeah we didn’t know then. But the songs stripped down event was great because it introduced three songs from Pippin and also introduced Christina Capehart and Anthony Ieradi as these characters to help drum up the commercial interest in doing Pippin. And it was really - oh shit.
Donegan spills beer on my notes.
Haley: That’s for your dead homies.
Evans: To the homies.
So you didn’t even know if the show would come back - it wasn’t on hold, it was canceled.
Donegan: Yeah we had no idea until recently we’d get to actually do it. All but one of the original cast members were able to return to do it. And we now have a new Executive Director at the PAC (J. Woody Lotts) and the sponsors have really been showing up so, after a brutal couple of years, it’s coming back. Don and I talked about reeling things in at first. Maybe just come back with a smaller, simpler thing - but Woody and Alex both said, let’s do this. Let’s go big. So we are going big.
Evans: Tell us about your Assistant Director?
Donegan: Well, first of all, I have never had an Assistant Director so this is all new. I have told Vicki for years that she should direct a show. She agreed to be my Assistant Director which basically means she’s my bitch.
Michaels nods.
Donegan: But Vicki and her husband (Tom) are also leading sponsors so in the end, whose bitch is whose?
Michaels: Very true. So far it’s a lot of admin work. And I’m basically a glorified Girl Friday. But more like Monday - Friday. Honestly, I really just wanted to see how Jaime directs. I’m learning a lot. And he’s learning to enjoy not having to deal with all of these tedious sort of things that go into a production.
Donegan: Oh my god, if I had to deal with what she’s having to deal with…I would have shown up drunk already.
Evans: That ability of delegating things goes back to not being a dictator I suppose.
Michaels: He’s a dick.
Evans: But not a tater.
Michaels: Jaime directs in a completely different way than other directors I’ve worked with. It really does feel like there’s room for play. There’s room for ideas and it’s fun to come to rehearsals when you feel like your input is appreciated and heard.
Elkin: Jaime leads with questions as opposed to statements and that creates opportunities for discovery for everyone involved. It’s very rare on any level.
Evans: Also rare, Jaime you actually know the composer of Pippin yeah?
Donegan: Yes, Stephen Schwartz.
Donegan and Elkin: (in unison) With a Z.
Donegan: Yes, we are very close friends and have been for a very long time. It’s interesting to work on a show where you know who created it, you know what their vibe is. He’d had success with writing the music for Godspell of course in 1971, and then Pippin became a hit on Broadway and they brought in the big hot director which at the time was Bob Fosse. He was older by then, and he brought a sort of darkness to it that wasn’t sitting well with Stephen and things got so heated that Fosse banned Stephen from rehearsals for his own show. Fosse made it all about the choreography. Which, you know we have amazing choreography in this production but it’s a means to an end. And while we’re keeping some of the dark stuff in there, because you can’t have true light unless you have darkness, you have to have a balance.
Evans: On the topic of choreography, where do you start with all of that?
Elkin: I think regardless of whatever role you’re in, you need to go back to the story. And what is different? And what are we exploring, because if the movement is going to be successful, in my opinion, it needs to be an exploration of that story. I actually reread the original and I reread the revival scripts to see if I could find anything in either one that resonated or anything I felt were missed in the revivals.
Michaels: I think your choreography in this is really telling a story.
Elkin: Thank you. I grew up in the Bob Fosse world, I learned the “Manson Trio” and a lot of this iconic material from Ann Reinking, who was Fosse’s muse and was in the original production. I was 13, learning this material. And that’s a huge honor. And yet, I wasn’t interested in recreating material that is iconic into existence. And so that was a big conversation that Jaime and I had was, do you want me to come on so that I can recreate what was? Or do you want to find something new? He wanted to find something new. And that was exciting to me and sparked a fire in me. And so we found a movement that I believe really honors what Pippin and the players are exploring and experiencing throughout the piece.
Evans: How does it work when you are putting on a licensed production like this - how much leeway do you have in terms of interpretation and style?
Donegan: Interestingly there’s a forum online for Pippin where people doing the show can ask questions about it and Stephen Schwartz or his assistant Michael Rose will answer them. Someone was planning to do Pippin and they wanted to add like…80s music to it. And Stephen Schwartz answered him and said, you know , I’m not gonna say no but I do question your motivation for doing that. Like...why? And seeing that he was open to even something like adding 80s music for zero reason - that made me feel like I can just do what I need to do, I didn’t tell him what my plans were - he knows we are doing the show and he’s excited about it. He sent us a video greeting for the cast and crew and it was really nice. But I decided to just keep it within this theater and it will be what it will be. I can say that I’m adding something before the show that I think sets the tone of why this is happening. And this solves some things….look - theater people all across the globe love this musical. But many of them don’t know what the fuck it means. I really believe that. So, I’m not adding lines to the script or anything like that, but this is how I would like to make a statement that really helps to understand the show. And how we are doing that - is very now.
Evans: Well I’m excited to see it. Even though I still don’t have a fuckin’ clue what it’s about.
Michaels: Nobody does! That’s the beauty of it.
Donegan: Once you understand where this truly takes place, then you realize it can be anything.
---------------------------------------------------
After another round, and many more things said that even The Comet can’t print, it was time to pay up and call it a night.
Everyone hugs (or gently high fives if you’re Alex Haley with a hand injury which I could swear was on the other hand yesterday) and I look for my bill.
Evans: Wait, who paid my tab?
Nobody answers as they all head out into the sweltering summer heat toward the PAC for an evening of rehearsals.